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Post by shogun on Jun 11, 2008 17:21:53 GMT -5
I think it's time for us to discuss this topic once again. We all came together out of a desire to play Matchmaking with the same team for a better overall experience. The only other options were either going alone and having to get put with a limitless supply of random idiots, or hook up with a few from the friends list and hope for the best. There was also the option of playing customs on a nightly basis, but we all know how quickly that gets old.
So our goal for quite awhile has been to get Sparhawk and Ghost to a 40. Ghost finally got his but Sparhawk hasn't quite made it. At this point I feel it is a personal goal to get him there and I'll do whatever it takes to make it happen. We had planned to hone our skills in Team Slayer to make the transitions to other game types easier, and I think we all assumed we would have gotten the 40's a long time ago. Although our breakouts and plans are not completely free of improvement room and our execution is not perfect, I think we are doing really well.
I think there are two main reasons why we haven't gotten that last 40 yet.
1) The random starts or game types. What I mean by this is Assault Rifle starts and Team Snipers games. This takes a perfectly good setup and turns it upside down. Our setups are based on Battle Rifles. You can't hold certain areas or cover others with short range weapons, and spawning with an Assault Rifle versus a team who has collected Battle Rifles is a nightmare. And I won't even go into Team Snipers, we all know how those turn out.
2) Rank. With our ranks we are playing against people in their 40's. We all saw what we did versus 30's, it was the epitome of why people hate second accounts. Fun for us, brutal for them. Considering the cap for rank is 50, you have to realize that when we play against low 40's we are technically playing against people in the top 20%, and once we hit 45's you're looking at the top 10%. Pretty stiff competition, we are playing against the top players.
Now it is becoming more obvious that we are shifting toward being more competitive. I think it is the next logical step, and we have already taken it by signing up for the ladder. I think we all look forward to seeing what we can do. I also can't help but be worried about how we will do. We are going against teams who practice MLG constantly, and that's all they play. We rarely play it and we are put at a severe disadvantage against many of these teams. Our breakouts are all geared toward Team Slayer, and then it is all different with MLG settings.
After laying all that out I think you can see where I'm going with this. I would like to put a few questions to you, to see where everyone is at and see if it's time to make a few changes or not.
Does everyone think we have gotten to the desired point in Team Slayer?
If the answer is yes, what do we need to do to get Sparhawk his 40 as quick as possible? I think we all agree that this is a team goal that we refuse to not carry through. Do we all need to take advantage of the free account from the dashboard and see if we can get him there? Is some other game type like Double-team or Swat a better answer?
Is everyone interested in being competitive or just doing it for fun? If we go toward competitive more, will it still be fun?
If the answer is yes then should we start focusing all of our strategies toward MLG?
I would really appreciate it if you could all comment on this. I think it's important to take stock of our team from time to time. I think if we agree to keep it the way it is we will still have fun, and if we agree to move toward MLG we will still have fun. It's a matter of what everyone thinks and what everyone wants, not just what I think.
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Post by boulder94 on Jun 11, 2008 17:58:31 GMT -5
I would agree about getting Spar to 40 as soon as possible and then move to MLG. I personally love MLG but would like to get Spar to 40.
When you say competitive, what does that entail? I like the ladders but I can't really commit to anything beyond out regular schedules and ladder. I love the MLG games the most.
Now, to what I have been up to. I have been taking a break and just doing practice on practice nights. I'm stepping back a bit and trying to have fun again in H3. We would all agree that I can get a bit carried away. So, I have been working on treating H3 as a game once again. I think we do much better when I'm having fun. I have an infectious personallity. Looking forward to some matches and might play some tonight.
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Post by ghost on Jun 11, 2008 19:15:38 GMT -5
So, here's something for you guys to think about. Teams that are good in MLG are also good in TS. It seems the value of being good has little to do with what weapons you have and much more to do with positioning, team play, weapon control, calling things out. Legend isn't a 50 in TS because all games he played were with a BR. Watching his gameplays, he has a BR alot, but he also uses the AR alot, the brute shot, and knows how to throw grenades.
I'm happy to play more MLG, but I don't think we're going to do much better there than in TS. Actaully, I don't really care what we play. For me, it's just fun being with a consistent group of people that also enjoy playing and want to be better.
I also like the ladder stuff because it gives us a chance to gauge how much we are improving. Unlike MM where sometimes we beat what are probably very good teams and sometimes we lose to very bad teams but don't know it, we know roughly how good 2o2p guys are.
Boulder, it's good you are taking a break at times. We do play alot better when you are happy. If you are ignoring stats, that's probably the best thing. It really doesn't matter if you go negative and we win.
So, another good question for everyone is how can we get better at this point? There's lots of thoughts about aggressiveness, positioning, weapon control, la la la. I think we've been working on many things all at once and probably need to choose one at a time.
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Post by shogun on Jun 11, 2008 19:24:14 GMT -5
When you say competitive, what does that entail? Nothing drastic. Just continue with ladders and setting up scrimmages versus other teams, and perhaps versus teams from other sites such as Halo junkies. I don't mean dedicate more time or go to events, just actively using our time to focus on beating other teams, not just in Matchmaking. Now, to what I have been up to. I have been taking a break and just doing practice on practice nights. I'm stepping back a bit and trying to have fun again in H3. We would all agree that I can get a bit carried away. So, I have been working on treating H3 as a game once again. I think we do much better when I'm having fun. I have an infectious personality. Looking forward to some matches and might play some tonight. It shows. I actually said something about it the other night, you have been great about not letting the game get to you. I've been impressed. You seem to be having fun again and that's what we all play this game for. It's good to have you back.
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Post by boulder94 on Jun 11, 2008 20:30:43 GMT -5
I'm in for the competitive part. I was hoping that is the direction you were heading.
I do have more fun when not taking it as seriously. I've come to accept and realize that a lot of issues are outside of my control. Example being lag. That is just the way it is. I have been having a lot more fun and play better as a result.
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Post by shogun on Jun 12, 2008 9:07:25 GMT -5
So, another good question for everyone is how can we get better at this point? There's lots of thoughts about aggressiveness, positioning, weapon control, la la la. I think we've been working on many things all at once and probably need to choose one at a time. I think one of the underlying problems that we have for each of these is communication. We have all gotten really good about call outs, but I think our communication when it comes to plans is something we need major work on. During a game on Narrows someone may say that we need to be on their side of the map but it gets no more detailed or coordinated than that and we still don't push on maps like Pit when we realize they have a few down. Even if we do it's not consistent. We need to coordinate our aggressiveness. The Pit is a good example on this. Many times there will be three of us at Long Hall and one of us at Shield. And even when we notice it we rarely, if ever, communicate it to get everyone to a better position. We rarely communicate a plan of action to pick power weapons up on spawn. It's normally someone who has spawned near them and noticed them spawn, but when we play against a team who keeps track of times they almost always control all of the power weapons against us. If they have a power weapon we don't communicate a plan to take them out or to get it back. Even though there are many things we can work on, I think we need to get better at working as one through communication. Here is an idea to throw out there that may help. What if we tried playing Team Slayer with a few things in mind. Goals if you will. A proximity goal. At all times you must be within a certain distance of another team mate. I would say no further than the distance from Long Hall to Short Hall, and not close enough that a grenade would kill you. The other team will never be able to single out one of us, they will always be fighting at least two of us. It makes us more aware, and it forces us to communicate. If one of us is alone, then they would communicate with someone else, and decide who should wait for who. An example would be on Narrows. If we all pushed but then everyone is killed and only Ghost is left, the moment Ghost notices this he will pull back to safety and either go back to another team mate (probably not the best idea) or keep under cover until a team mate comes to him (probably a much better idea). If one of us wanted to go for a power weapon they would communicate that and would at the least be searching with two of us. Many times on maps such as Snowbound a few of us will spawn and grab the rifles and leave the others to fend for themselves. The other team could have some easy pickings, a lone person with just an AR. Don't die. Work more on not being killed than on killing. I'm not saying put a shot in someone and then duck, I mean after a fight recharge your shields. Actually use the cover around you. If we are also using the proximity rule then you should be able to take cover if you are almost dead and still have a team mate right there to finish the kill. It may even help to read Fetal's post blog about Self Preservation. These are just the two off the top of my head, but I think it will force us to communicate more effectively, and hopefully also make it easier to coordinate plans of attack. I'm not looking at it as something we have to focus on every game at all time forever, I'm thinking just focus on this next time we practice. Focus on this and not on winning. See what happens.
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Post by sparhawk on Jun 12, 2008 10:03:11 GMT -5
My 40 will come, I am not overly concerned about it. I actually almost had it yesterday (I worked from home and took a couple hour break). Made it to a 39, won 3 more games, then an avalanche of quitters. I would no longer make this a team priority, unless everyone really wants to share in it. I think for any ladders, etc....we do need to play MLG more. I am happy with us fielding a competitive team that enjoys playing. We won't win them all, but I really want to win some. I am not a good loser. Most times I will log onto xbox.com before signing on to make sure one of you are on before I hop on.
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Post by shogun on Jun 12, 2008 10:26:45 GMT -5
My 40 will come, I am not overly concerned about it. I would no longer make this a team priority, unless everyone really wants to share in it. It's personal. I think we all agree this is a team goal. Maybe our best bet is to give Team Doubles a try again. We may have to just play dirty and hide once we get the lead to insure we get it.
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Post by ghost on Jun 12, 2008 12:56:53 GMT -5
Believe it or not, I do try not to die as much. The difference for me is that this is about 3rd or 4th on my list. I will die trying to get back to my position or staying in my position, because I'm expecting that my teammates are expecting me to be there. That's why my KD on Narrows has been so terrible. I'm expecting my team is going to be working to get to the middle, and that's where I go as soon as I respawn, which usually leads me into fighting 1v2 or 1v3. I will also die if I can kill the guy with a power weapon. So, if I can put an enemy with rockets in the situation where he can only kill me if he also kills himself, then that's ideal.
One problem with trying not to die is that it can make people very conservative. There has to be a balance between staying alive and running like crazy at the other team. I think that's what we need to find.
Post more later, I'm late for a meeting....
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Post by shogun on Jun 12, 2008 13:11:53 GMT -5
I know exactly what you mean and have thought about that as well. I was just thinking we could focus on just those two things for a whole night and see what we think. Maybe we aren't playing conservative enough, I know we are very defensive but that's not the same thing in my opinion. We could come out with more losses than usual, but I'm just curious if it would be an eye opener or not.
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Post by ghost on Jun 12, 2008 14:41:07 GMT -5
I've thought about the in game communication as well. I usually notice when people are out of place or things aren't working as we've planned. I've usually not said anything directly to anyone because I don't want people to feel like I'm calling them out. My typical strategy is to try and point out things later, without mentioning names. I don't want to create additional bickering during a game.
I'm starting to think that this approach isn't very effective. Are people cool with me calling out stuff during games?
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Post by sparhawk on Jun 12, 2008 16:52:06 GMT -5
Yes, I know my in game callouts have been insufficient.
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Post by shogun on Jun 13, 2008 13:49:33 GMT -5
Last night in the ladder match I was impressed at how well we called out how many dead and trying to react accordingly.
But back on topic, we still need to figure out what we need to do next. We have been pointing out problem areas but the hard part is how do we purposefully work on these? We are still in a vague area. It seems we are still all over the place on setting up and objective goals. The last thing we actively tried that worked really well was Ghost's idea to work on slaying instead of capturing. We also know that mid game is when we start falling apart. Any ideas on how or what we need to do next?
We are going to be playing a ladder match weekly as long as our availability allows, so we will have to be sure of what we want to accomplish on the other nights we are on. Scrims will be good practice, but we will get more from them if we know what it is we want to accomplish.
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Post by ghost on Jun 13, 2008 14:09:56 GMT -5
I was also happy I heard a few callouts of double kills and the like.
My opinion right now is we need to publish weapon respawn times, memorize them, and work hard to call them out. I'm thinking part of our midgame falls apart due to losing control of power weapons at the wrong times.
That aside, I think we need to work hard on slayer positioning in objective games. We almost never had someone in the middle, as sho pointed out. Maybe this is something for Sho and I to work out, since we're the ones to be playing those spots.
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Post by boulder94 on Oct 22, 2008 17:20:20 GMT -5
Looks like we need to start utilizing the site more or do something different.
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